Poms is based on a true story and stars Diane Keaton as a woman who sees the final chapters of her life coming and checks out of her Manhattan life and moves to Georgia to “die” in a senior living community. Instead of her dark view of the immediately future, she discovers a zest for life that had been sorely missing when she starts a cheerleading squad with her fellow retirees and in the process injects hope and heart-laden laughter to a group of women who firmly believe that they can do anything they set their mind to—regardless of their age.
Director Zara Hayes makes her narrative feature debut and the documentarian (Battle of the Sexes, Dian Fossey: Secrets in the Mist) phoned The Movie Mensch for an exclusive chat where she revealed what it was about this real-life story that she based her film on that she also co-wrote (with Shane Atkinson). She admitted that she initially approached the story believing that it was going to be her next documentary. Instead, the more she dove into the topic the more she realized that this tale belonged on the big screen in an entertaining and enlightening narrative picture with the medium’s enormous reach and potential to change lives.
Keaton is joined in the cast with a few other legends as well—such as Jacki Weaver (two-time Oscar nominee for Silver Linings Playbook and Animal Kingdom), beloved actress Rhea Perlman (Cheers) and 70s sensation/Quentin Tarantino muse (for Jackie Brown) Pam Grier. Hayes talks about her stellar cast and how her set truly mirrored what was being portrayed on screen. This was a group of women coming together and working as a team towards a common goal—sharing this stunning true tale with the world.
The Movie Mensch: I’m sure it’s hard to choose because there’s just so many that for me as a viewer stand out, but was there a moment above all others that you’ll remember for the rest of your life from the filming of Poms?
Zara Hayes: Oh wow, [there are] so many like you said. I love all the dance scenes so much and I love filming those, but honestly the final shot of the film—it’s not the final shot of the film—but the final shot of Diane’s character in the film. When she throws the pom poms up and then she sees all and manages to encapsulate the entire story of the movie somehow. It’s like four seconds when she goes from this complete triumph of this journey that she’s been on to sort of knowing that it’s the end. That to me was just so incredibly special and I can see it happening before me and I knew that when I got to the edit room, I knew that was the last shot we see in her character.
The Movie Mensch: What was it about this real life story that inspired you to co-write the film and invest your time and effort into helming the story?
Zara Hayes: It’s a good question. Well I’ve always had a funny relationship with cheerleading because I grew up in England and we don’t have cheerleading, or we certainly didn’t when I was growing up. So, it’s a very American thing and I consider myself a huge feminist and the idea of cheerleading is a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, it’s this great American sport that’s been underappreciated and it’s amazing what they can do, but on the other hand the whole idea of women adorning men who were the main event and all that, that’s a bit [off]. I used to dance so I’ve always been fascinated by it. I came across the fact that all around America there are women setting up cheerleading teams and this is a real thing. That was completely intriguing to me. I saw these photographs of women who set up cheerleading teams in their 70s and I found it really empowering. They look like they were having such a good time. There’s something about them doing this that’s defying all the conventions and saying, “It doesn’t matter what society tells you. You should be doing this. Do whatever you want.” And cheerleading is so inexplicably linked with youth, right? Like young women.
The Movie Mensch: Traditionally, absolutely.
Zara Hayes: Then these women are just saying, “I want to do it now. I don’t need your permission. I don’t need a team to cheer for. I can cheer for myself.” I fell in love with that. I thought that this story could tell a bigger story, if you should get it right.
The Movie Mensch: Now was there every consideration to make it a documentary instead of a narrative feature?
Zara Hayes: Yes, absolutely. That’s what I started out actually thinking because that’s my background. I spoke to people and went to a cheerleading group in Arizona, one of the original senior cheerleading teams who’ve been around for a while now. As I was asking for more stories and more insight on who these women were and why they were doing that, I felt like if I could create a story that could have a bigger scope. It would lend itself to being a movie.
The Movie Mensch: How do you think your documentary filmmaking experience aided you in making Poms?
Zara Hayes: The way I operate is so linked to being a documentary filmmaker that I sometimes don’t even know that the way I do things is not the way someone else would do it. For example, in finding out about this world, my research process is to go and get on the phone or go and see people. So, the whole story came about to me in that process. Then, more generally, when we were filming, not being afraid to have a plan and then change the plan is the most unpredictable subject you can film. I’ve been in situations where I’ve been filming a performance, or a fight and you have to get it and if you don’t get it you don’t have a film. I tried to reclaim some of that documentarian approach. I wanted there to be an organic feel to some of the material in Poms so then there was an air of life happening in front of you. Of course, every director wants that opening, but I tried to use my documentary background and create the conditions for that at least. I allowed flexibility of movement of the actors whenever possible, that are maybe a little bit unorthodox from a strict narrative point of view, but a lot of them ended up making it into the film.
The Movie Mensch: Got to ask you about that cast. First of all, how is it working with a legend in Diane Keaton?
Zara Hayes: Legend. [laughs] I mean she’s just a delight. She’s so incredibly generous. She’s so in the moment that she doesn’t think of herself as the legendary Diane Keaton. When you’re working with her, you’re just working with her and then you don’t feel bogged by that. It could be so easy to get in a position where you are very aware of that kind of legacy and, “I’ll be directing Annie Hall!” She is just such a kind of creative human being that all she cares about is the work in the moment that she just is present and that’s the biggest thing about her. It’s like she wants to be present all the time. Whatever the situation is on the day, that’s where she is so she’s kind of got this incredible ability to sort of be in the set flow and I think that’s what makes her such a great actress. She’s the kind of leader who created this atmosphere amongst the cast which was very special. There are a lot of legends in this cast! There are a lot of people who could have an ego and could come with a lot of baggage. We didn’t expect any of it because they all just brought us their A-game. I think that that’s what the genuine group dynamics that you see on camera was captured organically. They did form a group.
The Movie Mensch: Was there a particular scene that you saw coming in the filmmaking schedule that you were a little concerned about and if so, how did you kind of overcome those apprehensions and triumph on it?
Zara Hayes: Do you mean in terms of the ability to pull it off?
The Movie Mensch: Yes.
Zara Hayes: All of the dance scenes are challenging because in the script it literally says, “And Martha teaches them a few moves.” That’s what it says. “The interior dance studio, Martha, helps the ladies improve their new move.” Literally, that’s it! [Laughs] What does that look like? How do you get people engaged? Those are the places where I really drove home my documentary experience. Diane really took it upon herself to be the leader of the group. She would be teaching them sections of this routine and I feel like they ended up some of my favorite moments from the film. It’s about real behavior happening in front of you.
The Movie Mensch: Whether a documentary or narrative film, what do you look for in a story to tell?
Zara Hayes: I think about this a lot because I make quite a diverse group of documentaries and some of the subject’s must have been quite dark. I always wanted to look for something where you have a person who was at a point of change and who in some way challenging the status quo or what is expected of them or doing something really heroic and I don’t mean that necessary in a big way. I think that those kinds of stories that end up getting some sort of faith in human nature that’s what I keep coming back to. Even a documentary that I made that was about one of the most horrific things that ever happened in the world’s history, the collapse of a plaza building in Bangladesh. I end it with these young women who work in the factory in whom the future of Bangladesh kind of rests and I kind of leave it to them to kind of take the torch forward. I’m attracted to those arcs really, but I’m also really interested in women or characters in general who…are a bit difficult. Like trickier. I wouldn’t say difficult because I think the word difficult is used too much in relations to women especially that. I made a documentary series about Dian Fossey (Secrets in the Mist) and she’s a hero no doubt. She saved a species. But she’s flawed and she’s a bit problematic. As a result, there are these contradictions within her character. Similarly, with Marcy, Diane’s character in Poms, she starts off in a challenging place and she definitely changes through the beginning of the movie to the end and I wanted that.
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The Movie Mensch: I have spoken to many an actress who don’t mind playing nefarious characters, they just seek at least a minor redemptive thread.
Zara Hayes: That’s really important that people undergo change and that everyone’s a mix of bitter and the sweet. That’s why the opening song by Carole King is how you have to mix the bitter with the sweet. That’s the whole thing about life. I think there’s often, with female characters in particular, there’s a problem with that. I made the Dian Fossey documentary, but there was a Jane Goodall film at the similar time. I think Jane Goodall’s a much more powerful heroine because she’s just good. She’s sweet. It’s easy for people to see that as heroic whereas we’re kind of used to flawed men but not necessarily flawed women. Not to overstate that too much but that’s something I’m interested in and it runs through my work. I’m happy for it to be packaged in a way that’s like the medicine in the pillow or whatever the phrase is. The kind where we’re playing with known tropes and known narrative structures, but we’re injecting a message in there that I think is quite new. I’ve never seen women over 55 dancing on a widely released Hollywood movie before.